Tobias Revell is a digital artist and designer from London. He is Design Futures Lead of Foresight at Arup, a global collective of 18,000 consultants, engineer and designers dedicated to sustainable development, he spends much of his professional life contemplating ways to tackle our complex problems. Arup "uses imagination, technology and rigour to shape a more sustainable world", providing realistic solutions that aim to make a lasting impact. Revell also teaches at several design schools, enabling him to share his approach to creating sustainably with the next generation.

Revell expressed to us that, for him, the threat of climate change has to be confronted, "there's not an off switch on it". In this interview, he revealed books that have shifted his perspective on the urgency of the climate crisis, new ideas for sustainable solutions to overconsumption and small changes that he has made in his life, that we can all adapt, to become more environmentally conscious and caring.

Q1. How does sustainability influence your work and daily life?

For my work, it's pretty clear. The company I work for, Arup, is a sustainable development firm, and so our entire objective and everything we do, is about sustainable development. We use the aphorism, ‘building a better world,' to set that mission apart, so that means both planetary and social sustainability. That's sort of the position we take when we're doing our work. I'd say it's probably the same in daily life. I think the structure of these questions is interesting in the sense that it assumes that there's a choice. I think I'm in the first generation which sustainability and the common and accepted knowledge of the crisis facing our planet and society are just baseline assumptions. And so, it's sort of there through everything. I remember learning about the melting ice caps in geography when I was seven or eight years old. You know, it's just part of life. There's not an off switch on it. And I guess in terms of the decisions I make; I try and make them sustainably. It’s not always possible. Obviously, I don't think there's anything I do that's particularly unique. I travel less by plane than I used to, pre-COVID. I try to preserve more energy, to eat and consume more sustainably. I’m currently renovating my house and although there's ways of doing that where it's a massive investment of money, time and expertise to make it completely sustainable, it's certainly the priority of what I'm doing. So, whether that's reusing things that are secondhand, reusing things that are already there that can just be fixed up. Working with materials that are more sustainable, where I can, where they're affordable, and where they're feasible, and where the expertise I have is enough to work with them; it's all part of it. That's the question I always ask whenever I’m doing anything: what's the sustainable option?

Q2. Have you experienced any pivotal moments that deepened your understanding or commitment to sustainability?

The one that comes to me straight away was reading Jonathan Safran Foer's ‘Eating Animals’ when that came out, 15 years ago or so. I remember reading that, I worked in a bookshop at the time and liked Jonathan Safran Foer, and that made me vegetarian for a number of years. I’m not currently vegetarian because I'm recovering from an accident where the doctor said, “you need to consume meat”. Nonetheless, it taught me this idea that we have to return to eating meat at a 1950s level in order to make sure that our food consumption is sustainable. So, in other words, one meat-based meal a week. I certainly don't eat red meat at all, maybe once or twice a year. Anyway, reading that was a big change for me.

Q3. Have you encountered any unexpected benefits or opportunities from adopting sustainable practices?

Yeah, I certainly prefer being more methodical in consumption and production. I'm renovating my house at the moment, so doing the research into different products and their origins and their longevity. It fits with my designerly mindset anyway to approach things from that perspective. I have rejected conspicuous consumption, so the idea of buying loads and loads of stuff on the off chance that it might be useful. I'm quite methodical in planning and for things like clothing, I’m very, very specific about what I want, and I don't browse or anything like that. So, I found that approach to consumption to be quite intellectually rewarding and I really enjoy doing the research. I've learned a lot. One of my very closest friends is vegan and has been his whole life and I've discovered the joy of vegan food and some really great, really delicious foods through him. I think that’s been a massive benefit. In 2012 or 13, he took me to a vegan fast-food place in Manchester and, I don't mind telling you that it was horrible, I was like “this is just not good food, it just tastes like crap”, they had things like tacos and burgers, and it was just rubbish. Thirteen years later, vegan food's amazing! I’ve discovered lots of new ways of cooking, preparing food, lots of new flavors and textures, that's another benefit I've really enjoyed discovering because it's not something I ever had growing up as a kid.

Q4. In your view, what’s one simple and doable lifestyle change that could have a meaningful impact on sustainability?

As I understand it, eating one meat-based meal a week can have a significant impact on an individual's carbon footprint. And if you can avoid red meat entirely, all the better. I also cycle everywhere. I know that's not feasible for everybody, but to me it is the perfect form of transportation in London where I live. It's faster, cheaper, more efficient than any other form of transport and it's obviously better for the planet. And so, those two things are things that I imagine have had a significant impact on my sustainability. I'm about to try and re-insulate my loft as well, which has saved 14% of heating.

Q5. How do you think circular economy principles — eliminate waste and pollution, circulate products and materials, and support ecosystem regeneration — could be adopted in your industry or in a hobby?

Arup is very invested in the circular economy. We have an entire circular economy business that's based largely in the Berlin office with Martin Pauli, who looks at everything from how we might use digital doubles and digital twins as a way of tracking materials, allowing them to be reused through the use of robots and machine learning to identify opportunities where, if you're taking apart a building, for example, and you've got lots of glass in that building, how could the glass be reused in the construction of another building, being as most windows are bespoke, so using machine learning to match them to each other. So, our industry is very much into that. Another thing that Arup is keen on, which maybe is supporting ecosystem regeneration, is nature- based solutions. So as opposed to throwing up concrete or steel, we think how could we work with natural materials and natural ecosystems to achieve better outcomes, which is a subset of this question about the circular economy.

Hobby is a tricky one. I mean, I wouldn't say a hobby, I'd say in life of the things that I found really interesting is the growth of the second-hand world. I have a three-year- old kid and I'd say 75-80% of her clothes are second-hand in one way or another. And they also will be passed on to someone else as well, and usually for free. And so, things like Facebook marketplace have really enabled that ability to share those things quite quickly and efficiently.

I guess the problem with the circular economy is the management of it. The issue, if there is one, as with any transition, is the sort of socio-technical regime, you know, that has to be altered in order for that to become the norm for people. In socio-technical studies, if you're going to change an entire paradigm (I mean it's not really a paradigm, it's what we would maybe call a socio-technical regime, in other words, a way of doing things socially and technically), you have to reorder the infrastructure so if you to think about it from a user basis. Let's say I need an HDMI cable for tomorrow because my HDMI cable on my TV is broken, the socio-technical regime privileges me ordering something from Amazon Prime because because that will arrive tomorrow, it will be affordable, it will happen at the click of a button, and be relatively good. So the question for that sort of changes. How do you design a system that is just as efficient and that’s more favorable? So, there are examples of things like that again, the second-handmarket is a very good example. Things like Back Market, Facebook Marketplace, I use another app called Fat Llama for borrowing tools. They're not quite as efficient but the the extra transaction costs, which is this idea that we also have to invest time and effort into making something happen is sort of worth it for the financial savings. If I, as I did the other day, borrow an infrared camera from Fat Llama, it cost me £20 and takes a bit of back and forth with someone about when I can pick it up. But it's better than the £190 I would have spent having to buy one. Or you have to have a social norm, where waiting for longer and putting more effort into getting an HDMI cable is preferred. And that seems even less likely. I guess the thought experiment is what does an Amazon Prime for the circular economy look like? Something where it is using cutting-edge logistics and cutting-edge logistical algorithms to respond pre-emptively to demand. That's really the question for the circular economy. And at the scale of infrastructure and buildings and things like that, that's not so problematic because it moves at a slower pace, but I think for consumers, that's a kind of problem. We've been we've been working on a project called 'The Future of Making' for a while now, which was exhibited at Singapore Design Week and then Dubai Future Forum in October, and it's going on to some further exhibitions, TBD. We thought about actually the latter part of that.

So, what if the values and the things we prioritise in society were different, such that the circular economy thrived? So, instead of consumers, we had carers. Instead of speed, it was all about slowness. Instead of pre-emptive logistics, it was social interdependence and that was just a world in which all of these things were different. The way I kept thinking about it to sort of hold on to that idea, was this idea of a GP for things. So, in the European tradition, the doctor is a pillar of the community, someone who's respected, whose time is respected, you revere their expertise, but they're also someone who supports the health of the community more generally. What happens if we elevate people who repair, maintain, swap, and share the objects, devices, and materials we need in order to build good lives for ourselves? What if they're treated with the same sort of respect and have the same role in our community? And that's the sort of underpinning thought of that speculation. What does a GP for things look like in a community?

Q6. Are there any books, documentaries, or podcasts around sustainability that you feel particularly inspired by and would recommend to others?

I mentioned Jonathan Safran Foer's 'Eating Animals' earlier, which had a really strong effect on me and increased my understanding of the food supply chain around meat in particular. There’s a podcast called ‘How to Save a Planet’ from Gimlet. It’s good because it talks about inspiring stories of interesting things that people are doing to intervene and new technologies, and it has quite a positive outlook on various complex issues. Another book I read recently, which isn't inspiring so much as horrifying, was ‘The Deluge’ by Stephen Markley. So, this is a novel, a large epic novel, about the next 15 years of American climate policy. And it was written two years ago, so it's slightly dated given our current context. The point of it, was future speculation about how the American political system would start to shape and respond to climate change as it became real over the next decade plus. And it's pretty horrifying, but the research and the quality of the research that went into it and the grittiness and the reality of it was really apparent. And that sense of it being entirely plausible and credible was what made it so kind of horrifying because it isn't a positive story; it's a really dark story, and it's quite anxiety-inducing for me, especially because it refers to negative effects on children, which with a young kid, I shouldn't probably should have read, but yeah, that was that was pretty shocking and will stay with me for a while. I would also suggest Tchaikovsky's ‘Children of’ series. Adrian Tchaikovsky has a series of science fiction books. All the speculation that's at the center of those is what if human beings weren't the dominant species in a planetary ecosystem and how might that planet and the society that they formed be different, if it was different animals that rose to the top of the food pyramid. This is very interesting speculation that's maybe the sort of really furthest edge of thinking around more than human lives, what that might look like.

Q7. Is there a circular designer or brand you particularly admire and why? This doesn’t have to be in fashion.

Well, the one I really do admire is in fashion, which is Raeburn. We've done quite a bit of work with Raeburn, and they've featured in some of our design fiction work over the years. I think there's something really good about how they don't centre their circular or upcycling as the defining story, it is really a fashion project. They've really hit on an aesthetic that I really like. There's a mix of streetwear and utility. I want the things to be robust but also interesting. They really send to that idea and because of the fact that the things they produce are upcycled, they also come with a story. I have some of their tote bags that are made from police flak jackets. There's just a nice story that goes into it. I think that they've really positioned that well. I do admire Raeburn. They’re also really focusing on placemaking and connecting the ideology and the mission of the brand with bringing a community around that project and empowering another community of people to learn from what Raeburn knows, which I really admire as well. I think they're really great.

Q8. What is the most timeless piece in your wardrobe, where did you find it and how long have you had it for?

I mentioned the Raeburn bag earlier. I've had that for four or five years, the longest one I've ever had. I have a COS blazer jacket which I've had for about a decade and has been repatched at the elbows twice now because I lean on desks a lot, there's no complex story there; I just love it. The jacket’s got a waffle texture, it’s the perfect fit and size, very light but warm. It's just one of those things I keep coming back to, and I wear probably once or twice a month. I've got a good range of jackets now, but that one's definitely one that I come back to a lot.

Doc Martens, always Doc Martens. Since I was a teenager, I've always had black Doc Martens boots. And I'm only on my third pair, so that's not bad for 20 years. I've had the soles replaced; I haven't had the soles replaced in the current pair, but they are getting close to needing that. One of the tags is broken at the back, but they get a lot of wear, especially in the winter. I mean, a good pair of black Doc Martin boots-you can't go wrong; they go with everything; they're robust; they're protecting us, they're warm, they’re comfortable. You know, it's a really good thing.

I used to wear Chelsea boots a lot, but I didn't like them flopping around on my heel and I could never get them to fit properly. So now, I just wear lace-up boots and wrap the laces around the back, so they fit nice and snug. Other than that, I have the same silver jewellery set I've worn since I was 15 or 16 years old-earrings, rings, and necklaces.

Q9. What do you consider when buying new clothing?

It needs to be robust, I'm not a delicate person when it comes to doing things. I cycle everywhere, so I need things that are robust and will stand up to the rigors and wares of office work but still, I don't want to have to change my physical behaviour because of a piece of clothing being too delicate. Things that have longevity. I don’t want them to be seasonal. I want them to be things that I can pull on for years. I pretty much only wear black. I have a blue suit, and I sometimes wear white t-shirts and white shirts, especially when it’s warmer. That makes it a lot easier, and I think that is a strategic choice for those reasons above, it means that I probably buy one item of clothing a month, probably at the moment less than that. So, I need to know that it's going to last, that I can mix it up with all the other bits and it will still look good. And so having everything in black really helps with that because I don't have to think about color matching; it's just sort of silhouette matching or thinking about the weather. I do have cycling clothes, but I don't like getting changed, so I like to try and buy things that I can ride in. That's about it. I don't really look at the origins of things, but I prefer to trust a brand like Raeburn as I know that the products come from a good place.

Q10. How do you curate your wardrobe?

Everything is black, which really helps. There are some staples, I have three good black suits of different weights and then two or three black blazers as well that can go with other things. Two good black jumpers, two good black hoodies, four or five good black t-shirts, and then a couple of feature pieces, some Issey Miyake stuff and some shirts as well. It's quite simple really; it's quite like a uniform, you know.

I know it's really clichéd and people talk about this in regard to people like Steve Jobs, which I absolutely do not want to be compared to in any way, but it is useful to sort of just not have to think about it and just be like, 'oh, okay, I've got all that stuff solved.' And just depending on what the weather's like or what the meetings are for the day, I can just throw a couple of things together and I know they'll go together every time. I buy a lot of Y-3 as well.